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chops is the last poster
49 Unique Guild Members
14 Level 100 characters
458 Website/Forum Members
0 Posts in 24 hours
0 Posts in 7 days
84326 Total Posts
chops is the last poster

DKP Decay
DKP Decay
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Our original DKP system functioned like all others. You gained points for each raid attended. This, however, can lead to problems of making it EXTREMELY difficult to get new members up to level where they'd actually be able to get stuff in addition to the potential of members hording points.


To combat both of these problems, the officers and I have constructed a system of "DKP Decay". This means that DKP awarded for older raids (and also older item purchases) will decay over time.

This does 2 things.

1) It prevents effective hording of points, as your older points will slowly diminish, thereby inspiring members to spend the points they have now, rather than trying to horde them.
2) Allows the newer members to catch up more quickly, as every day the older members' raids will be more and more weakened in value.


It's all powered by a single square root formula:

Let d = number of days ago the DKP(s) was/were awarded

if d <=45 then e = 1
else e = sqrt(145-d)/10

if e <= 0.25 then e = 0.25

Where e is the effective DKP value

That's it.


Example 1:
Lets say you attended a raid 90 days ago,
e = sqrt(145-90)/10 = 0.74
So that raid is now worth 0.74 DKP



Example 2:
Lets say you received a 12 DKP item 113 days ago,
e = sqrt(145-113)/10 = 0.57
Each DKP for that item is then worth 0.57 DKP.
So the total amount of DKP the nearly-4-month-old purchase is
0.57 * 12 = 6.84 DKP
What this means, is that the 12 DKP purchase, as decayed to being worth only 6.84 DKP.



Doing this rewards people for spending DKP, since the items they've bought will slowly decay away in value. If you bought a 20 DKP item a year ago, it will have decayed to 5 DKP by now.

In short, after 45 days, DKP start to decay, at which point it will take roughly 3 months for each DKP to decay to a quarter it's original value. So the sooner you spend your dkp, the sooner those spent DKP will begin to decay.

To demonstrate the benefit of spending your DKP, Observe the following chart. This is a theoretical situation demonstrating if Sweet had made a dkp purchase of 10 DKP about 35 days before he went MIA, as well as had he NOT made a purchase.



Notice the difference in rate of decay for the top curve and the bottom curve. Clearly your dkp decay much more slowly when you make a purchase.


What makes this new system ideal is that it weighs RECENT activity more heavily than past activity. This means that in order to remain high on the charts, you must stay active. If you go on vacation for a month, yeah, you'll lose some points, but gaining those points back won't be terribly difficult. This is a way to make sure people KEEP on attending the raids.

I hope this is clear to everyone.

The Current Standing page has been modified now to support this change, as well as adding a nice little graph to both that page, and to each member page. This makes it easy to track the dkp history of each member. The officers and I will be using those graphs to track any trends (too many people getting too many DKP), and whatnot. Ideally, we'd like to keep the max DKP anyone can have around 50 or 60. If people start amassing more than that, then we're looking at too large a curve before the newer members can get gear.

To see more examples of the curve of dropoff, look at Dude, Sweet, Delamite, Darksound (who was gone for a little over a month), and Lumadar's History on the Chart.

Also, please be aware that both the graph and the DKP decay calculations run at 5am every morning. So don't expect the data to be updated immediatly. Because of the complexity of the calculation (especially in generating the graph), it must be on a cron-job as opposed to calculated on the fly.


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So what about changing my Main. Will the DKP go down while im trying to get it to 60? I'd rather not have to try and spend the points and take away gear that others will use on a main character.

[EDIT]And also due to bad luck you could, technically, just lose DKP and never really get anything.



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They call me "Hadouken" because im DOWN-RIGHT-FIERCE!
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So what about changing my Main. Will the DKP go down while im trying to get it to 60? I'd rather not have to try and spend the points and take away gear that others will use on a main character.


No, the nanners will transfer to your new main.


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[EDIT]And also due to bad luck you could, technically, just lose DKP and never really get anything.


Yeah, you'd lose some, but because of the rate of decay, it wouldn't be major. They key is just to keep raiding, as with this system, recent activities is weighed more heavily than past activity.

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RoNS is overpowered


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um... boo?


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um... boo?


Yeah, it hurts us vets more than anyone, but that was a sacrifice we're willing to make. Over time, it just means that everyone will be getting gear rather than just Fries, Alacor, and you.

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RoNS is overpowered


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um... boo?


Yeah, it hurts us vets more than anyone, but that was a sacrifice we're willing to make. Over time, it just means that everyone will be getting gear rather than just Fries, Alacor, and you.

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RoNS is overpowered


I'm glad to hear this, not so much as I'm pleased vets are getting dinged, but it's pretty disheartening for new folks to go raiding with you 'old timers' and know that they've got a good 30-50 points up on you for any gear that might drop.
im not so much biased vs the new members.. but its now a situation where i miss one raid pretty much.. and all my extra raids i have on katy evaporate..=|


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im not so much biased vs the new members.. but its now a situation where i miss one raid pretty much.. and all my extra raids i have on katy evaporate..=|


Well, we're all making a similar sacrifice. Look at me and polla. Look at Fries. Look at everyone who's been here since the beginning.

It's DESIGNED to close the huge gap between the new members and the old members. Now while the gap between you and katy wasn't all that huge, the gap between Al, and say, Cyz, was pretty large, Even after al had gotten 2 pieces of Lawbringer.

The way it is now, it's fair, and truth be told, the only complaints against it (including mine and the officers') are out of selfishness. And while selfishness is sort of a valid complaint, seeing as you would like to get gear yourself, the way to make sure you get your gear is to raid consistently.

Personally, I'd rather see everyone happy than an elite few who get to score gear.

HOWEVER, people who only raid once a month will probably never get high enough on the list.

This system merely forces you to stay active, and pretty effectivly limits the max nanners you can get.

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RoNS is overpowered


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im not so much biased vs the new members.. but its now a situation where i miss one raid pretty much.. and all my extra raids i have on katy evaporate..=|


and they don't evaporate. They're still there, just not worth as much. Those are nanners that you have that he'll never have, because he started late. If he gains a nanner advantage over you, it just means that recently, he's been raiding more than you.

The same situation is between me and polla. I've raided more than polla overall, but recently, he kicks my ass in recent attendance.

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RoNS is overpowered


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The way it is now, it's fair, and truth be told, the only complaints against it (including mine and the officers') are out of selfishness. And while selfishness is sort of a valid complaint, seeing as you would like to get gear yourself, the way to make sure you get your gear is to raid consistently.


Also realize that I'm not singling you out here and calling you selfish. This just happens to be the same argument I used when convincing the officers of the merits of this system. I, too, was hesitant to give up my lead over Polla, but it's a sacrific I needed to make for the good of the guild.

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RoNS is overpowered


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on another note.. I think I'm missing another raid from 7/15 the one where we split into UD and scarlet straths, as i didnt leave for DC until 4am sunday morning, the 17th, I'm pretty sure I woulda been at it. See what you guys think though..

**edit heres a picture of the raid members before we split** (sorry for the whitespace im tired)

BYEBYEPIC


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on another note.. I think I'm missing another raid from 7/15 the one where we split into UD and scarlet straths, as i didnt leave for DC until 4am sunday morning, the 17th, I'm pretty sure I woulda been at it. See what you guys think though..


Hmm....I recorded the raid I was at (The Scarlet one). Wasn't the other one UBRS?

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RoNS is overpowered


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It might have been, but it loosk like everyone that went wherever we went is missing that raid, now that im looking at more profiles


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It might have been, but it loosk like everyone that went wherever we went is missing that raid, now that im looking at more profiles


Yeah, that's how it's lookin.

Just entered the rest. There were 15, so it had to be UBRS.

Damn, Fries, you missed entering that, nubsauce.

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RoNS is overpowered


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Hey Adam, think you could ditch that pic? It's messing with the formatting of this page, and this is a thread linked from the menu.

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RoNS is overpowered


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BYEBYEPIC


hehe...Thanx man

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RoNS is overpowered


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Ya I understand this decay will make new people get their purples easier, to encourage them join the raid. That's a good idea.

the only thing I'm a bit confused about is the way it decays. it looks like first it decays slowly, then drops faster and faster until it reaches 0.25.
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the only thing I'm a bit confused about is the way it decays. it looks like first it decays slowly, then drops faster and faster until it reaches 0.25.


That's exactly how it decays.

Picture the graph of sqrt(x). Now flip it (mirror image). That's how the decay looks like over a few months.

Since you are the economist type, cyz, I'm curious if you have any comments or suggestions.

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RoNS is overpowered


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Picture the graph of sqrt(x). Now flip it (mirror image). That's how the decay looks like over a few months.


ya I understand from the formula to the shape of the curve. I'm just wondering why this particular formula is chosen the way the DKP decays. It looks like linear decay is already enough, since it starts from 1, and consistently drops to some lower value.

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Since you are the economist type, cyz, I'm curious if you have any comments or suggestions.


It's of course a good idea and will surely encourage new people to join the raids. This system makes what happened in the past, both the nanners you earned and the nanners you spent, insignificant. (So it's less likely someone will end up several hundred DKP and scare away all the new joins of the same class).

Comparing with the system before, senior members obviously took some hit from the decay system while newer members gain some advantage. I appretiate the effort.

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It might have been, but it loosk like everyone that went wherever we went is missing that raid, now that im looking at more profiles


Yeah, that's how it's lookin.

Just entered the rest. There were 15, so it had to be UBRS.

Damn, Fries, you missed entering that, nubsauce.

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RoNS is overpowered


Psh, why's it gotta be my fault, bitch?

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F'ed in the A.


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F'ed in the A.


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