the difference between me and everyone else is that I'm so much better than everyone else at everything so I make all heroes seem unfair.

me too

I somehow don't feel you're joking.

Gonna go of course for a second here. Does anyone else hate having to scroll horizontally to read House's posts?

I was wondering that myself, I think it's the signature that I'm getting rid of in a sec here, hold on.

I hate it too btw.

better, still gots the GW in there tho, fo sho.

Do I make you feel aroused, disgusted, uneasy, inadequate, mad?

Shit man, what res are you guys running?

Though it was def the sig. I've been considering some kind of thing that would scan for images too large and auto-resize them.

I have never had to horizontally scroll when House posts. That would be a cool thing to do though.

Evelyn is not the best hero in the game. However, she is good, especially when Ismael plays her (COINCIDENCE?!). She is better than Nunu. I love how you make overstatements so frequently and yet always retract your previous statement in the case that you are wrong. However since you typed this you will never claim that you EVER change your statements and use this as proof.

You would play Nunu over Eve because you are A) Bad Dumb or C) Misinformed.

Should I paragraph about why Nunu is bad and then why your claim that Evelyn is bad is false?

#1) Pot, meet kettle.

I've said (several times actually) "Evelyn sucks." Furthermore, I've often said, "Evelyn is good when she's very farmed, especially at killing noobs." Good players know to get vision to counter her and make her almost completely useless. And yesterday you told me I said, "Evelyn is the worst hero in the game." Interesting that I make overstatements.

#2) I can only imagine you're referring to the 200 ability power @ level 10 thing when you claim that I retract previous statements if I'm wrong.

I don't think I'm blowing sunshine up your ass by telling you that I think you're most of the time, a pretty rational person. But at no point in our debate on this did you show any signs of rational thought. This is why I'm starting to realize that you have very selective hearing.

When Ismael said "This Kassadin was super fed he had like 200 ability power by level 10." I said, "That's not too surprising. That's roughly how much he should have if he went straight ability power and got a few kills/assists" You twisted my argument only MINUTES later to, "You can easily have 200 ability power by level 10." Then when I defended my case you just tried to prove your point by constantly restating an argument I never made.

But that, somehow, became me changing my argument. If you're gonna pretend I said something different than I said, then there's really no arguing with you. I can't refute immaculate evidence created in your head.

#3) "You would play Nunu over Eve because you are A) Bad Dumb or C) Misinformed."

Nunu has a great nuke/slow. All of his abilities scale very well with ability power. He has a fantastic passive, that combined with consume allows him to stay in a lane longer than almost any hero I can think of, which makes him great at farming. And his move/attack speed buff is phenomenal. There's no two ways around that. Giving it to a carry ranged (or melee) dps hero is just asking for a free win.

So why is he bad? Because his ult is channeled? I can think of plenty of very good dota heroes with ults that are channeled. It's not hard to wait for an enemy to use their disable and THEN use your ult. Not only do I disagree with you that Nunu is bad... I can't think of a single legit reason you could argue that Nunu is bad.

But I'm sure you'll try to come up with some.

I like Nunu better than Evelyn, but that's because I don't like the way Evelyn walks. What dummy goes to battle in spiked high heels? Especially when you'll be walking around in grass and mud and stuff?

But srsly this is going to boil down to "You said, I said" so I will ignore that #1 and #2.

About Nunu, I like how you can think of plenty DOTA HEROES who have channeled ults... this is not DoTA, therefore this is irrelevant.

If we think about the good LoL champions, all of them have a stun/interrupt. This Nunu does not have. Yes he can farm enough ability power, but is he a tank or a caster? In large battles, is he a tank or a caster, and in team fights, is his passive useful whatsoever? If you build him as a caster, you will be dying as you try to ult. Yes he can stay in a lane long, but as you can see there are much more important things to be done than sit in a lane all game, despite that some people play this way. Again, is he a caster or a tank or a carry? Farming on Nunu is not at all equal to the effects of farming on a champion like Yi. Also, as he is not clearly a tank or a caster, he cannot engage the enemy. It more requires a flash + ult move after waiting for the opponent to exhaust their skills presumably on your now dead allies.

These points make him a weak hero.

Bloodboil is good, true. Still, there are other heroes with similar abilities (Taric, Sivir, Warwick, Pirate, Judicator, Zilean) that I feel are superior to Nunu. This is a preference so I will concede that Bloodboil is good.

The problem with Nunu's ult was that it was nerfed roughly 25% from what I can remember. Luckily with this next patch they're buffing it a tad. At 16, it will do 750 damage at the end of three seconds to people caught in his ring.

Now, if he's built as a tank, that 750 damage won't really do much at level 16, especially considering the popular heroes (ones that can escape, stun, etc). If he's built as a caster, significantly more damage will be dealt (+1 AP/sec) but now you're much more squishy and could be bursted quite easily. Building him half n half could work if you're against a melee team with no stuns or escapes, but that's not very likely.

If you're already obviously winning a game, Nunu is a good hero. Now that's quite a redundant statement since any hero is good when winning a game. If you're not winning the game, I don't feel Nunu is very good since his ability to chase down targets is negated by the 5-man gank squad effect.

<Obligatory shot at your skill-level>

You can't say that Lamyra would be dumb, misinformed or bad if he wants to play nunu over eve. It all depends on the hero makeup. I would much rather have a nunu on my team rather than a pirate.

I would also much rather have a Nunu on my team and instead of eve, an actually decent carry that doesn't rely on getting farmed early game. But maybe I think about the big picture and not "OMFG I GOT TONZ OF KIELLZ" despite popular belief that isn't what I want every game (played Amumu/Morgana last 15 games) I just want to win every game. I feel confident with Ismael playing a carry or myself, no one else. Sorry if that is cocky, but I feel that we make the better decisions, no not everytime, but I feel that we have done the best with carries.

I like people who would rather play Nunu on my team rather than Eve. In a 5v5 team fight, Nunu is better, meta-game consists of 5 man fights a lot, therefore Nunu is better.

Fin.

Nunu is really just about timing his ult correctly and never initiating a fight.

Nunu is also not a tank.

Nunu is also not a dps.

Nunu is also not a caster.

Nunu is slowing heavy support hero. In the end, he is very, VERY dependant on having amumu or a good morgana on his team to do well in team fights. When it comes down to it tho, you have the following situation:

Amumu for tank
Malphite to Initiate
Morgana as Support and AoE
Ashe as a carry
*Other AoE capable hero.

Win.

Also, I am just stating facts. Nunu is getting a buff soon anyway.

Well there in lies the problem.

Caster or tank?

I honestly, like you, don't think he fills either of those roles correctly, since he's clearly a hybrid. But I think you're overlooking maybe his best asset. We both agree he's pretty useful early game, right? Being able to cast a pretty heavy damage nuke/slow so frequently and being able to stay in a lane for a long time allows him to be a valuable lane partner and a solid pusher. In addition to just getting himself farmed and pushing lanes in, he'll conversely slow down the people he's laneing against and likely be 1-2 levels higher than they will.

You said his ult is easily interrupted in team fights against teams with a lot of disables. That's true. But early game chances are you'll be able to get your ult off with relative ease if you wait until the two enemy champions use their disables, provided they both even have one. There aren't a lot of disables on very short cooldowns in this game. Especially early on with no reduction.

So for that reason I think that taking advantage of the fact that Nunu's so dominant early game will help set the tempo for the remainder of the game.

Now... will he fall off? For sure. Especially if you keep building him all tank or all caster. Early game you can afford to play him like the hybrid he is. Rod of Ages/Rylai's Scepter are both great items that work perfectly for a tank/caster. But I agree with you that you can't fully expect to be competitive late game building a champion for both caster AND tank.

That's why I think once you've done your part with Nunu early game and he's becoming less effective, that you need to switch your items toward cooldown reduction/auras. Soul Shroud + Frozen Heart specifically. We agreed he's a good farmer right? So it really isn't that out of the question that he should be able to get those items. With maxed out cooldowns from items, Nunu's ult is on something like a 49 second cooldown. His slow (I think) is like 3-4 seconds. And I know you can have his buff (which lasts longer than Judicator/Warwick/Sivir and all those other heroes you mentioned by the way) on three different heroes at once. With a very short cooldown on his ult (which even if it gets interrupted, slows a ton) and constant higher-than-average dps slows spewing out of him, combined with the move and attack speed buff, he's really a support hero. Especially with the auras.

That brings me back to my early point of his real "best asset". A support hero. And if the game doesn't last long enough for him to get there, all the better because he rocks so hard early on anyway.

Sure.



Right.



I think this just comes down to playstyle. You can keep building him caster and do fine. At some point even two seconds of cast time from Anunu will deal enough damage to make the other team retreat a little bit.



Sure, he fills this role the best.

So we agree then. Nunu is an okay hero.

Edit: Also, Rod of ages, Rylai's Scepter. Holy crap, I rule

Okay doesn't cut it.

fuck cunts