49 Unique Guild Members 14 Level 100 characters 401 Website/Forum Members 0 Posts in 24 hours 0 Posts in 7 days 84313 Total Posts Nelthilta is the last poster
49 Unique Guild Members 14 Level 100 characters 401 Website/Forum Members 0 Posts in 24 hours 0 Posts in 7 days 84313 Total Posts Nelthilta is the last poster
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became sinner."
They want to deliver vast amounts of information over the internet. And again, the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck.
rofl Adam consciously disobeyed God just as much as Eve did. Too many Christians need to get it through their heads that they'll never make sense to the world until they actually read and understand scripture.
Do they not realize that strong women, by God's command, several times lead Israel away from imminent disaster, such as Ester, Judge Deborah, and Judith.
What is wrong with a woman teaching a man? Sure there are some subjects that are inappropriate for women to teach men, but really if they know something some men don't, then why not teach. Women being submissive to men is mostly aimed at leadership in the family body. Just like any other body has a clear chain of command. I mean what guild is run smoothly with two completely equal leaders?
But even on the subject of marriage, men aren't supposed to be slave drivers that have a lapdog wife to satisfy their every whim. That makes no sense. This piece of scripture explains it best.
Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord. For Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. he who loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church; however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
- Ephesians 5:21-33
Pretty much this says, women be submissive to the your husbands, and husbands put the needs of your wife ahead of your own.
1 Timothy 2 1 I exhort therefore, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and givings of thanks, be made for all men:
2 for kings and all who are in high places; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and reverence.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
4 who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all; the testimony in its own times;
7 to which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth in Christ, not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8 I desire therefore that the men in every place pray, lifting up holy hands without anger and doubting.
9 In the same way, that women also adorn themselves in decent clothing, with modesty and propriety; not just with braided hair, gold, pearls, or expensive clothing;
10 but (which becomes women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.
12 But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman, being deceived, has fallen into disobedience;
15 but she will be saved through her childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and sanctification with sobriety.
---- If the Da Vinci Code, a murder-mystery novel, threatens your beliefs, then your beliefs are weak and should be threatened.
lol ok Chops before I begin to actually explain Paul's Epistles (such as 1 Timothy you just cited) their context and who is writing them, how they are worded and how they fit into the Gospel let me make sure of something.
Are you interested in me having context provided or are you just trying to do a driveby portrayal of Christians as self-serving hyprocrits, therefore uninterested in any context at all.
Someone start to the countdown until Camera stumbles upon this gem.
rofl sucks that you started worshiping at the alter of the illegitimate-Cam. He's like AIDS, he gets into a body and starts taking over its cells and has now created lovely little minions like you to do his bidding and help him scare all the cool people away from post WoW pias.
Someone start to the countdown until Camera stumbles upon this gem.
rofl sucks that you started worshiping at the alter of the illegitimate-Cam. He's like AIDS, he gets into a body and starts taking over its cells and has now created lovely little minions like you to do his bidding and help him scare all the cool people away from post WoW pias.
lol ok Chops before I begin to actually explain Paul's Epistles (such as 1 Timothy you just cited) their context and who is writing them, how they are worded and how they fit into the Gospel let me make sure of something.
Are you interested in me having context provided or are you just trying to do a driveby portrayal of Christians as self-serving hyprocrits, therefore uninterested in any context at all.
I'm not trying to portray christians as hypocrites, just that sometimes, the bible has some pretty fucked up rules, such as the one I cited above.
Maybe your explanation will somehow give validation to the reasons that a woman should not be a teacher, but overall I find it to be a pretty archaic rule.
If you want to type up an explanation, go for it, I'll probably read it, but frankly, I don't care ALL that much, I just think it's a pretty durn silly passage.
Also, I wouldn't mention it if it was old testament, since the rules there are laughably backwards (Exodus and Leviticus are a blast), and christ, I guess, is supposed to have given us the "new rules" in the beatitudes. But if this is Paul, then this is new testament, then it's funny having the bible say "sitcho ass down and get back to the kitchen."
---- If the Da Vinci Code, a murder-mystery novel, threatens your beliefs, then your beliefs are weak and should be threatened.
Well I'll make it as brief as I can then. I won't give you all the background, just a general idea of how to read the Epistles of Paul.
First off, Timothy was basically a disciple of Paul's. He was a protoge of Paul, so to speak. Paul is simply advising Timothy in these two letters on how to lead the body of his church plant. Now, Paul, like your or me, is only a man. Notice that some of the time when Paul advises Timothy, he words it "I don't allow this" or "I do things this way," etc.
Paul is careful to not say that God teaches 'X' or the Holy Spirit teaches 'Y' but says that he himself is doing the advising. Paul is aiming at teaching us how to think about the world, not how to run the mundane tasks of our lives and how exactly to structure our bureaucracies.
Now, when I read Paul's writings in the Bible I realize that he was a far smarter person than I am and that he was a far greater Christian than I think I could ever be. So I have to take that into account when I have a personal disagreement with some of his words. Paul makes very good cases for the points he makes. The leadership issue with women included.
Still, I in this day and age and in this culture cannot reconcile actually literally following his recommentions to the letter. I disagree with him that women should not teach. I think there are many women who make great teachers.
It is not sin to disagree with Paul's point of view on this, but still he wrote those words in the Spirit of the Lord so they do have validity and are definitely good advice.
Paul's style of running a church is far different than say Peter's style was. Or even James, Jesus' brother. They all had differences of opinion on how to run things. But in the end they all knew they were still all one in the Body of Christ and always had that strong unifying common ground.
Neither of them were necessarily wrong in how they ran things. Just a difference of style. I would not prohibit women from teaching, but I do take Paul's reasons for doing so seriously.
Someone start to the countdown until Camera stumbles upon this gem.
rofl sucks that you started worshiping at the alter of the illegitimate-Cam. He's like AIDS, he gets into a body and starts taking over its cells and has now created lovely little minions like you to do his bidding and help him scare all the cool people away from post WoW pias.
Neither of them were necessarily wrong in how they ran things. Just a difference of style. I would not prohibit women from teaching, but I do take Paul's reasons for doing so seriously.
I'm just gonna straight up say that Paul was wrong for saying women shouldn't teach.
I just re-read your thing....James, Jesus' Brother....
I know dogma (the movie) joked about Jesus' brothers and sisters, but I was unaware that there is actual legitimacy with Jesus supposedly having siblings.
Now that I've mentioned Dogma, Chris Rock's rant about Mary and Joseph "not getting down" is one of the best Chris Rock rants ever, btw.
---- If the Da Vinci Code, a murder-mystery novel, threatens your beliefs, then your beliefs are weak and should be threatened.
