49 Unique Guild Members 14 Level 100 characters 401 Website/Forum Members 0 Posts in 24 hours 0 Posts in 7 days 84313 Total Posts Nelthilta is the last poster
49 Unique Guild Members 14 Level 100 characters 401 Website/Forum Members 0 Posts in 24 hours 0 Posts in 7 days 84313 Total Posts Nelthilta is the last poster
Every 1 armor means the damage it takes to kill you is extended by 1% of your hitpoints. At 100 armor, it takes 100% more damage to kill you, ie it requires double damage, ie you're taking half-damage. At 300 armor you're taking 25% damage, etc.
Is this diminishing returns? Not really. The damage it takes to kill you is scaling linearly. If you have 1000 hitpoints, then each point of armor means you can take 10 more damage before dying. And this is true no matter how much armor you have (aside from rounding errors). So in that sense, it's linear, and there are no diminishing returns.
Magic resistance works in the exact same fashion, except it does so against spells only. There is no overlap between armor and magic resistance at all. (Ex. Having 500 Armor would have no impact on spells, having 500 Magic Resistance would have no impact on physical attacks)
Relavant responses from that thread that help clarify things:
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So let me see if I got this straight
Let's say I have 100 hp 0 armor. I buy 6 items that increases my armor by 100 each. That would be like adding 600 hp, effectively, right?
Now let's say I instead buy 5 items that increase my hp by 100 each and 1 item that increases armor by 100. That's 1200 ehp.
Given that, and considering the potency of both magical and physical damage in this game, is there really any incentive at all to increase armor or magic resist over hp?
I can easily give a counter example: well what if you have 3000 hp and 100 armour, whats better against physical attacks 50 more armour or 600 more hp? Which is cheaper? Answer: Assuming no recipe items the hp route gives 7200 ehp vs physical attacks for roughly 1425g. While the armour route gives 7500 ehp vs physical attacks for roughly 700g.
The problem for now with armour is that one item really reduces the effectiveness of armour. The same cannot be said for MR. Buying some MR is worth it. Many champs have 1.5k-2k base hp at level 18. While only have 30 MR. buying MR will make many caster champs like veigar lose a lot of their burst effectiveness against you (especially if you get veil as part of MR and immunity once every 25 seconds).
I'm running down some numbers here for my break because I'm a nerd...gonna make some posts when I find info that may be useful.
Early game (I checked level 4 stats) it is pretty much universal that health items are better than armor. Even with Alistair, at level 4 a ruby crystal(500g) gives him 215 hp, as opposed to cloth armor which gives equivalent to 184 hp(300g). That's about .61hp for every gold spent for the armor and .43 for the ruby. So from what I've seen, unless you're an absolute tank, it's probably more cost efficient to get your hp items before armor.
These calculations are taken figuring 2000hp, which means end game. Even twitch at level 18 should have 2000hp.
Warmog's armor costs 3225g. 850 health, 30 health/5(Permanently gain 4 Health and .5 Health Regen per 5 sec per minion kill. Champion kills grant 40 Health and 5 Health Regen per 5 sec. Bonuses cap at +500 Health, and +62.5 Health Regen per 5.)
It seems unlikely that you would get this maxed since you won't get it till end game, but IF you do end up getting it maxed you end up getting 1350 hp and 90 health/5.
Wardens armor costs 1650g. 90 armor and 25 health regen. This equates to (against melee) 1800 health and 25 regen.
In other words, if you get Warmog's once you have 2000 hp, you are paying 1600 gold for -500 health and +70 health/5 and obviously this negative health number gets worse as you get more hp before you choose to buy one of the two. And that's IF your warmog's is fully maxed out.
Again, of course this only applies when you're considering vs melee. But if your team is having huge problems vs a heavy attack power champion, it seems to me it would be much more cost efficient to buy 2 warden's armors than 1 warmog's.
Sunfire cape costs 2850g. 500hp + 50 armor.Passive: Deals 40 Magic Damage a second to nearby enemies. This equates to 1500hp vs melee.
Thornmail costs 1600g. 70 armor. 1400hp vs melee. UNIQUE Passive: On being hit by standard attacks, returns 20% of damage taken as magic damage (15 damage minimum).
At 2000hp we know warden's gives you 1800hp vs melee and 25health/5.
Warmog's gives you 1350hp vs melee and 90health/5 if fully maxed out which likely won't happen so it won't be that good...likely.
If you use the money you save from warmogs to buy a negatron cloak, you get 50 magic resist, or 1000hp vs magic.
So, if you buy a warden's AND negatron cloak, you get 1800hp vs melee AND 1000hp vs magic attacks. These two together would cost you 2390 gold...still 835 gold cheaper than warmog's.
I still almost NEVER see people spend the money on mercury treads for magic resist. Which never makes sense to me. They're only slightly more expensive than the all-too-common spell power/dodge boots and they reduce the duration of slow effects by 40% (might help against those rare occasions you have to play against an Ashe or a Teemo) as well as give you +35 magic resist. If 100 magic resist is your goal, to half the effect of negative spells on your champion, with those boots you're just over a third of the way there. Pretty worth it.
Yes this knowledge certainly makes the guardian angel maybe THE best tank item in the game.
It's really sold me on NOT getting warmog's for the reasons I stated above. You can easily match the effectiveness of it for cheaper with two items it seems.
Whenever I tank, granted its not very much, I always build a guardian angel, or try to.
Look at high level game item builds on heroes, they very rarely build a banshee's veil. The however build items with health/armor and most of their tanks have a guardian angel.
It's not super important to get the magic resist items unless you're really getting torn up by casters. But the point of your carries and disables are to disable them and kill them first, not the tank. That is why magic resist isn't always used, because you focus the caster.
Whenever I tank, granted its not very much, I always build a guardian angel, or try to.
Look at high level game item builds on heroes, they very rarely build a banshee's veil. The however build items with health/armor and most of their tanks have a guardian angel.
It's not super important to get the magic resist items unless you're really getting torn up by casters. But the point of your carries and disables are to disable them and kill them first, not the tank. That is why magic resist isn't always used, because you focus the caster.
I can explain more if you don't get it.
I'm not arguing not getting a guardian angel. I like guardian angels a lot. I'm just arguing not getting it first. As the basic math tells us, getting health is way more important to get early than armor. Getting a catalyst is cheap and easy, and a great item in a lane early while you're leveling. Finishing a veil is very inexpensive after that. And... it gives you a lot more than just magic resist. Like the fact that every 25 seconds you get, what is essentially, an auto cleanse. Nothing is going to help you live longer and farm better than a 25 second cooldown immunity to disables.
Here's an excerpt from a guide that's talking about why to make a banshee's veil on the league of legends forums:
"The spell shield it provides is priceless. This will help you survive 100x more than a Warmogs or a health item. It stops you from getting disabled, chased, and harassed. This should be the item you're farming for. In addition to all it provides, it's also extremely cheap, so you shouldn't have any trouble aquiring it."
And again... I stress that health is more important to get first than armor. A guardian angel first item is a little redundant until you have some HP for it.
But if math or reading aren't your strong suits... I can explain more if you don't get it.
